NBC’s Chuck Todd grills Ron Johnson over election ‘conspiracy theory.’ Some Wisconsin Republicans reject his effort to challenge results.
In a contentious “Meet the Press” interview on Sunday, Sen. Ron Johnson acknowledged that Joe Biden won the election in Wisconsin but said it was still necessary to investigate unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud.
Johnson provided no evidence of voting irregularities in Wisconsin or anywhere else during his interview with host Chuck Todd.
Johnson went on the popular Sunday morning talk show — an appearance cut short by Todd, who accused Johnson of spreading conspiracy theories — to explain why he is one of a dozen Republican senators who say they will object to certifying Electoral College results on Wednesday.
Johnson and the others are calling for a nonpartisan commission to investigate the results, which already have been certified by state governments across the country. They show Biden won by more than 7 million votes. The former vice president received 306 electoral votes. President Donald Trump got 232.
Since the election, Trump has refused to concede and has repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that the results were tainted by widespread fraud. However, elections experts say that even amid a dangerous pandemic, the balloting was conducted fairly and without major incident.
At one point during the interview, Todd pressed Johnson to say which candidate he believed won in Wisconsin.
“Vice President Joe Biden has won by 20,000 votes,” Johnson said, “but there were also issues in Wisconsin.”
Johnson did not say what those issues were.
Other Wisconsin Republicans rejected efforts by Johnson and the other senators to challenge the Electoral College results, which were certified Dec. 14.
“Efforts to reject the votes of the Electoral College and sow doubt about Joe Biden’s victory strike at the foundation of our republic,” former Speaker of the House Paul Ryan said in a statement.
“It is difficult to conceive of a more anti-democratic and anti-conservative act than a federal intervention to overturn the results of state-certified elections and disenfranchise millions of Americans. The fact that this effort will fail does not mean it will not do significant damage to American democracy.”
“The Trump campaign had ample opportunity to challenge election results, and those efforts failed from lack of evidence,” Ryan’s statement went on to say. “The legal process was exhausted, and the results were decisively confirmed.”
U.S. Rep. Mike Gallagher and six GOP house members also said they had concerns about the attempt to challenge the Electoral College’s final results certifying Joe Biden as the winner of the election.
“We must respect the states’ authority here,” the statement said. “Though doing so may frustrate our immediate political objectives, we have sworn an oath to promote the Constitution above our policy goals.”
The letter also noted that the GOP House members had concerns about fraud, but not enough concern to disenfranchise the election.
Johnson’s NBC interview got heated when Todd accused Johnson and Trump of starting “the fire” of accusations of voter fraud without evidence.
“You made an allegation that there was widespread fraud. You have failed to offer specific evidence of that widespread fraud. But you’re demanding an investigation on the grounds that there are allegations of widespread fraud,” Todd said.
“You’re the arsonist here. Donald Trump is the arsonist here. You’ve started this fire. … And now all these people believe what you told them because you didn’t have the guts to tell them the truth, that this election was fair.”
Johnson replied that the GOP senators simply want to investigate allegations of fraud further.
At another point, Johnson mentioned unproven allegations of fraud in Nevada, but Todd interrupted. “Stop, you don’t get to make these allegations that haven’t been proven true,” Todd said.
Johnson accused the media, the FBI and the Department of Justice of being biased and not credible.
“We have an enormous problem in this country, it’s unsustainable, and the only way you solve it is with information, and transparency, and hearings, and investigations. It’s not quackery, it’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s what is going to be required,” Johnson said.
An exasperated Todd then asked Johnson why the government didn’t hold hearings on other conspiracy theories such as whether the 9/11 attacks were an inside job.
“Why didn’t you hold hearings about the 9/11 truthers? … How about the moon landing? Are you going to hold hearings on that?” Todd asked.
Johnson responded that there were multiple things he would like to hold hearings on, including the coronavirus response but said the election was a priority.
“Right now we have this election, we have tens of millions of Americans who think this election was stolen. We need to get to the bottom of it,” Johnson said.
But Todd was having none of it.
“When you tell people a million times that something was stolen, or something was fraud, and then they believe it, I think you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself why so many people believe it,” Todd said.
Johnson countered that it was Todd and the media who were at fault, telling Todd, “You destroyed the credibility of the press — not me” as the two men talked heatedly over one another.
Todd then cut Johnson off and thanked him for coming on the show. “Only two of your colleagues had the guts to say ‘yes’ this weekend about this conspiracy theory that you’re working on,” Todd said. “Thanks for coming on — that I appreciate.”
Johnson replied: “Have a good day.”
Sen. Ron Johnson can be reached at (202) 224-5323 (Washington, D.C.); (414) 276-7282 (Milwaukee); 608) 240-9629 (Madison); or (920) 230-7250 (Oshkosh). Email him by filling out the contact form at ronjohnson.senate.gov/public/
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