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QAnon

The QAnon Conspiracy Theory is Proved Wrong after Inauguration

kevin roose

In the days leading up to Joe Biden’s inauguration on January 20, as my colleagues in Washington were getting ready to go cover the inauguration, I was checking in with the followers of QAnon.

archived recording (qanon believer 1)

Boom, what’s up, guys? Welcome to another show. We’re here on Monday morning, January 18, only a couple of days left until Inauguration Day, or whatever the heck might actually happen on that day.

kevin roose

Basically, people who believe in this QAnon conspiracy theory had locked into that date, January 20 —

archived recording (qanon believer 1)

We’re all waiting in anxious anticipation to see what this week might bring, aren’t we?

kevin roose

— which they saw as kind of the final deadline, the true culmination of all of these beliefs and predictions they’ve been talking about for the last three years.

archived recording (qanon believer 2)

I don’t know. I feel in my gut that something is going to happen, and we go from there.

kevin roose

They were promised that Joe Biden would not actually be inaugurated that day.

archived recording (qanon believer 3)

Trump can call martial law, even up to five minutes before Biden’s inauguration if he has to wait that long.

kevin roose

Donald Trump would declare martial law and reveal all of these shocking and terrible government secrets and that Trump himself would get inaugurated for a second term —

archived recording (qanon believer 4)

The shot heard around the [INAUDIBLE] is going to be when they arrest Biden right there on stage.

kevin roose

— while Joe Biden would get arrested.

archived recording (qanon believer 4)

Either they’re going to arrest him on stage, he’s going to come out and say that the election was fraudulent, or something is going to happen and they’re not going to be able to do the inauguration.

kevin roose

And the thing I was trying to figure out is like, when that doesn’t happen, when Joe Biden is inaugurated in contradiction of all of these prophecies that QAnon had believed, like, what would the millions of people who have been expecting this to happen do?

michael barbaro

From The New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, my colleague Kevin Roose on what happens to a conspiracy theory and its followers when it’s proven wrong.

archived recording (qanon believer 5)

I mean, even if we don’t get our way, we’re going to get our way one way or another after that.

michael barbaro

It’s Friday, January 29.

Kevin, why is January 20 such a make-or-break moment for believers in the QAnon conspiracy theory?

kevin roose

QAnon at its core is a deeply date-driven belief system. So just to recap, Cliffs Notes version, QAnon is this big, sprawling conspiracy theory about this global cabal of satanic pedophiles who run the world. No basis in fact. It’s totally made up. But it got started in 2017 when Q, this anonymous message board poster who claimed to be a high level government insider, started posting these cryptic clues on a message board about what was going to happen — basically unspooling this theory about how Donald Trump was secretly working to take down this cabal and that there would be this day in the future, this moment of reckoning called “The Storm” or “The Great Awakening,” when Trump would reveal his plan, expose the deep state cabal, and bring its members to justice.

michael barbaro

Mhm. And Kevin, does anyone know — I don’t know if this is measurable — how many people believe in this clearly false conspiracy of Q and his prophecies?

kevin roose

Well, it’s hard to say exactly. I mean, they don’t keep an official membership directory. But it’s almost certainly in the millions. I mean, Facebook, Twitter, these other companies that have taken action against QAnon accounts, have taken down pages and groups with millions of members between them. So this is not, like, a small fringe movement anymore. And what’s interesting is that it’s continued to grow really rapidly, even though from the start, lots of the predictions that Q was making weren’t coming true. Like the very first post in 2017 predicted that Hillary Clinton was about to be arrested. And that didn’t happen, obviously.

michael barbaro

And how do these people rationalize that?

kevin roose

Well, mostly they tell themselves, we must have misinterpreted the clue. Maybe the clue wasn’t wrong; maybe we just weren’t smart enough or savvy enough to understand what date Q really meant.

michael barbaro

Hmm, it’s on us, not Q.

kevin roose

Exactly. So these QAnon prophecies, they come and go, and the goalposts get moved, and the explanations get reformulated. But one of the big setbacks for QAnon happens in November of last year when, to their great surprise, Donald Trump loses the election. QAnon believers had been told that Trump would win re-election in a landslide, and so they were confused. But they still had an out, because there was still this theory, this unfounded theory that the election had been stolen, and that when the truth about election fraud and other various conspiracy theories came out, they would be vindicated and Trump would indeed become a two-term president.

michael barbaro

Hmm. So even this, the greatest setback to date, is somehow rationalized, incorporated into the Q belief system as something that can be explained.

kevin roose

Right. But all of this is sort of made more confusing and complicated by the fact that after the election, Q — this anonymous message board account that posts these cryptic clues — basically disappears. There are a couple posts since the election, but Q used to post 10, 20 times a day. And now these posts, these sort of clues that help people in the movement understand what’s happening, they’re basically gone. Q just disappears, stops posting, doesn’t really address the election at all. And so that creates a power vacuum in the QAnon community.

michael barbaro

And what is the reaction among followers?

kevin roose

Well, some of them think that this is part of the plan, that Q has sort of gone incommunicado because things are heating up. There are various ways to explain why Q has disappeared. But what ends up happening is that instead of drawing their guidance from Q, people in this movement start looking to these influencers in the movement — these people who aren’t Q, or who they don’t believe are Q, but who sort of speak with authority about what’s happening in this progression toward The Storm or The Great Awakening.

michael barbaro

And so where do these new influencers guide QAnon followers?

kevin roose

Well, they start to point people to another date, January 6, the day Congress is supposed to certify the results of the election.

michael barbaro

And how do Q supporters start to think about that date? What’s supposed to happen?

kevin roose

So QAnon believers spend weeks leading up to January 6 convincing themselves and each other that Joe Biden is not going to be certified as the winner of the election by Congress. That maybe Mike Pence will step in and block it, or maybe Patriots will take to the streets themselves and sort of convince Congress not to certify the election results. That all of this is going to somehow end in a reversal of what’s been happening, and that Donald Trump will actually be declared the winner.

michael barbaro

Well, one slice of that, of course, does materialize. People do storm the Capitol, including, as we now know, QAnon supporters. But they fail. And, of course, Joe Biden’s victory is certified. So how do QAnon supporters absorb that news?

kevin roose

Well, the reaction among QAnon believers to January 6 was kind of mixed and confused. Like there were believers who said, like, yeah, this was us. We did this. But there were also people who said, no, this wasn’t us.

kevin roose

All right, can you hear me?

valerie gilbert

Yes.

kevin roose

Great. So yeah, catch me up a little bit. I mean, when we last talked —

kevin roose

And I heard some of that kind of mixed feeling about the riots when I called up a source of mine, this woman I had been talking to for more than a year, who believes in QAnon. She lives on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. She’s a middle-aged white woman, went to Harvard. Her name is Valerie Gilbert. And I called her after the riots and sort of asked her what she thought had happened.

kevin roose

Like, what were you thinking as you were watching them? What was going through your mind?

valerie gilbert

I don’t believe those were Q people. I don’t know one violent Q person. I don’t one Q person who advocates violence.

kevin roose

I mean, there were people on the ground who I follow, who I’ve been following for a long time, who were there post — I mean, I can give you some names, but there were —

valerie gilbert

Yeah.

kevin roose

There were people putting things like, this is The Storm.

valerie gilbert

I — yes. And so look, maybe some of them were. I can’t say who is or who isn’t. I’m not following all of them. But overall, you know, I don’t — while I want to see justice served and treachery to the United States government exposed, I don’t know who’s who. And who can definitively say that? There is a lot of spy versus spy going on and infiltration.

kevin roose

She said maybe it’s antifa, maybe it’s not. But she said that it didn’t shake her faith.

kevin roose

Does it bother you that Q has sort of vanished? I mean, I think he’s posted once — wait, three times —

valerie gilbert

It doesn’t bother me.

kevin roose

— three times since the election.

valerie gilbert

It doesn’t bother me. The whole thing with Q was to inspire thought, and it did that. It sparked a movement.

kevin roose

In QAnon, there’s this saying —

valerie gilbert

And the bottom line is, you know, we trust the plan.

kevin roose

— “trust the plan.” And that’s sort of what they tell each other after these setbacks. They say, you know, trust the plan.

valerie gilbert

I’m not one of the planners. I’m not in team Q. I don’t know.

kevin roose

There’s a plan. And maybe we don’t understand what it is yet, or when it’s going to happen, but there is a plan. And it’s going to happen, so don’t lose faith. And that’s basically where she had landed.

valerie gilbert

So I get the fact that this is a cliffhanger. And there are so many days, you know, when you look at the Q signs and things going up on the Q clock, and you’re waiting for a bang, and nothing [EXPLETIVE] happens. And you’re like, OK, you know what? I don’t know. I don’t know. But I think the wheels of justice grind slowly. And I think what we are going to see, when it’s all systems go, whenever the hell that is, is revelation. Declassification of some pretty horrible stuff that people are going to be surprised by.

kevin roose

I mean, it’s not all that dissimilar from how some people in religious communities feel about the Second Coming or the apocalypse. I mean, there have been lots of groups that have predicted things that have not come to pass, and they don’t lose faith after it. They just reformulate the belief and keep going.

[music]
kevin roose

What if you’re wrong? What if Biden is inaugurated on the 20th? What if Trump fades into public life? What if Q never comes back? Like, what if this whole thing was fake?

valerie gilbert

I don’t anticipate that. But if that comes to pass, then I will deal with that. And that’s how I roll, you know?

kevin roose

Like, what would dealing with it look like?

valerie gilbert

I’m not going to waste energy even postulating that. We can talk about that if it comes to pass.

michael barbaro

When we come back, January 20.

[music]

So Kevin, tell me about January 20 as you experienced it.

kevin roose

Yes. I have two monitors in my home office, and one of them —

archived recording

The presidential inauguration from the U.S. Capitol. Live coverage all day, here on C-SPAN.

kevin roose

— I was tuned to a live stream on YouTube of Joe Biden being inaugurated. And on the other one —

archived recording

What’s going on the internet buzz, guys? You got some links to send over? Come on, now, let’s do some research. Let’s see what’s going on behind the scenes.

kevin roose

I had arranged all of these, like, QAnon chat rooms and Telegram groups and Facebook groups. And basically trying to sort of have one reality on one screen and the other reality on the other screen.

archived recording 1

And today on the west front of the Capitol, it’s the inauguration of the 46th president —

archived recording 2

Hey, just wait for mainstream media to get really confused like they don’t know how to cover this. That’s when it’s gone off script.

archived recording 3

Now, this marks the 59th time in our nation’s history that this transfer of power has happened.

archived recording 4

I really hope and pray that he signs over everything to the military. I want the military in complete control.

michael barbaro

Right. Literally split screen realities of the world.

kevin roose

Right.

michael barbaro

And tell me what you see.

kevin roose

So the day starts off very hopeful for these QAnon believers.

archived recording (qanon believer 1)

Yeah, you kind of just got to look at all the things Trump’s put into play. And it’s kind of lining itself out, you know?

kevin roose

They’re looking for symbols, like Trump gives his sort of going away speech, and they see that he has 17 flags behind him.

archived recording (qanon believer 2)

He’s got something up his sleeve.

kevin roose

17 is sort of like a magic number in QAnon, because Q is the 17th letter of the alphabet.

archived recording (qanon believer 3)

He’s giving us hints right here.

kevin roose

So they say, like, oh, he’s sending a signal that this is the day that Trump is going to declare martial law and invoke the Insurrection Act and announce the mass arrest of all these elite pedophiles.

archived recording (qanon believer 3)

It would be hilarious if Trump did the emergency broadcasting in the middle of the inauguration. That would be hilarious.

kevin roose

As inauguration started, politicians walk in, take their seats. These people that they believe are members of this global cabal of criminals — Hillary Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama — they’re all in one place.

archived recording (qanon believer 4)

I get the popcorn ready.

archived recording (qanon believer 5)

I’m optimistic.

archived recording (qanon believer 7)

It’s almost like it’s the moment of truth.

michael barbaro

So as you’re watching this, you’re seeing people continue to speculate, like, any second now, this is going to happen. This is going to happen.

kevin roose

Any second now. One person on that QAnon message board writes, “The next 48 hours will be like the entire Revolutionary War and the fall of Berlin compressed into two days. I have called off work so I can witness history in the making. What a time to be alive.”

And then as noon approached and Joe Biden was getting ready to actually take the oath of office and get sworn in as the president, they started to get a little nervous.

archived recording (qanon believer 1)

What’s your heart say, guys?

archived recording (qanon believer 2)

My heart wants faith. My head says we’re screwed.

archived recording (qanon believer 3)

Listen to your heart.

I think we all want to cry. Sick to my stomach. Very sick to my stomach.

archived recording (qanon believer 4)

Chin up, hold the line. It ain’t over yet. We’ll know after 12 o’clock if he gets in there, we’ll see what happens then.

kevin roose

People just sort of trying to tell themselves that there was still time. Something could still happen.

archived recording (chief justice john g. roberts jr.)

— my ability —

archived recording (president joe biden)

— will, to the best of my ability —

archived recording (chief justice john g. roberts jr.)

— preserve, protect and defend —

kevin roose

And then —

archived recording (president joe biden)

— preserve, protect, and defend —

kevin roose

— as soon as Joe Biden took the oath of office —

archived recording (president joe biden)

— of the United States —

archived recording (chief justice john g. roberts jr.)

So help you God?

archived recording (president joe biden)

So help me God.

archived recording (chief justice john g. roberts jr.)

Congratulations, Mr. President. [CHEERING]

kevin roose

— and was officially the president, and Donald Trump was officially no longer the president, the mood really shifted.

archived recording (qanon believer 1)

I don’t know what to believe anymore.

archived recording (qanon believer 2)

I feel like we’ve all been played.

archived recording (qanon believer 3)

Think of all the people that we follow and trust that have told us about Q and explain the drops. That’s really the heartbreaking part.

kevin roose

They were getting despondent. People were saying, we’ve been played like fools. It’s over.

archived recording (qanon believer 4)

I’m tired of this. Everything that we read, we’re chasing dreams.

It just — I’m exhausted, worn out, tired of chasing hopes and dreams and realizing that none of them are coming true. So.

kevin roose

Granted, this wasn’t everyone. There were still some people who said, you know, I still trust the plan. You know, I’m still holding out. But a lot of people were getting very disillusioned.

archived recording (qanon believer 5)

On behalf of the moderation team —

kevin roose

They were leaving the group chats.

archived recording (qanon believer 6)

Keep faith. Stay strong. We’re working on some stuff in the meantime.

kevin roose

Some of the big QAnon message boards had so many people posting about their doubts and their disillusionment that they started banning these people, who they called “doomers.” So you weren’t allowed to post anything negative about QAnon, but that couldn’t contain this feeling that a lot of them were having that they had been lied to and betrayed. And that actually there wasn’t a plan.

michael barbaro

So this theory that always seems to get reinvented, justified, explained, rationalized — all of a sudden, there are people who are suddenly acknowledging, we can’t defend this. This is not real.

kevin roose

Yeah, the scales fell from their eyes. And then later that afternoon, a couple of hours after inauguration, this guy, Ron Watkins, who used to run the site that Q posted on — some people have suspected that he actually posted as Q himself — he posts this message to his Telegram channel. He writes, “We gave it our all. Now we need to keep our chins up and go back to our lives as best we are able. As we enter into the next administration, please remember all the friends and happy memories we made together over the past few years.”

michael barbaro

That does not sound like a believer. That sounds like somebody admitting it was all wrong.

kevin roose

Yeah, it was very weird. It was kind of like the real Q was “the friends we made along the way.” It was like it had a very “last day of summer camp” feel to it. This was one of the biggest, most prominent figures in the QAnon movement, and he’s basically saying, like, sorry, better luck next time.

michael barbaro

What is the reaction to Watkins’s post?

kevin roose

There’s a lot of anger. People are furious. I think it’s important to understand that this is not a small part of these people’s lives. This is not like, you know, I had a fantasy football team that I really hoped was going to win the game, and they didn’t win the game. Like, people have lost years of their lives to this movement. And as I was watching these QAnon unbelievers kind of turn on the influencers in their movements, I was thinking about my conversations with Valerie Gilbert —

valerie gilbert

I don’t want to talk to people that think I’m crazy, you know? And I don’t have a support network in the way that some people do, you know? I am my support network. So I’m actually — I’ve come to —

kevin roose

— who basically had told me that her belief in QAnon and other conspiracy theories had cost her a lot of her closest, longest relationships.

kevin roose

Has anyone ever — anyone from your circle of life ever tried to, I don’t know, sit down and talk with you about their worries about, like, from your old life?

valerie gilbert

Yes. My sister. My sister. And that’s one of the reasons we’re not talking right now. It’s been just not easy, you know?

kevin roose

When is the last time you saw her?

valerie gilbert

I saw her last summer, 2019. And it was right after that, that Q clicked for me. And, you know, clear — they were looking at what I was posting on Facebook. And I post a lot, as you know. And then my sister said, I’m worried about you. And I was like, oh, that’s it. No. No. No, no. If that’s all you got out of what I’m posting is your concern for me, then there’s no conversation. Because what I’m doing, I feel really great about it. I feel really great about my online community. You know.

kevin roose

If I asked your sister, like, in general, what she thinks of your relationship, what do you think she would say?

valerie gilbert

She’s very hurt. She’s very hurt by the fact that I pull back.

kevin roose

Would it be OK if I tried to contact your sister?

valerie gilbert

I would really rather not. And —

kevin roose

OK.

valerie gilbert

— it’s an awkward relationship, and —

kevin roose

Are there other people that I might call and just say, what’s your relationship with Valerie like? And — anyone that you have known for a while?

valerie gilbert

If I could think of someone — first of all, I don’t, I am not talking to anyone right now. And that is my choice. So when I — if there was someone that I felt — there’s no one that comes to mind. And when I — you know — so no.

kevin roose

She’d cut off ties with her friends. She’d been estranged from family members. Like, QAnon had really become not just a thing that she believed. It had become her entire social life.

valerie gilbert

I guess I felt unseen with certain people. And with Q community, you know, it is moving to me.

kevin roose

Yeah.

valerie gilbert

So anyway, it feels right. And in terms of finding myself alone right now and wanting it that way, it’s OK. It’s all OK.

And like I say, if friends who are different from me didn’t patronize me or scream at me and say, “I’m worried about you” — that is the most [EXPLETIVE] patronizing thing you can say.

kevin roose

Or isn’t somebody worrying about you, isn’t that loving? I mean, that doesn’t sound patronizing to me.

valerie gilbert

No. No, not when I then tell her, I have never felt better in my life. Not when I’m actually happy. If I was complaining, that’s one thing. No! I think that’s horrible. I really do. “I’m worried about you” — that is patronizing. You know? What if I said that to you: “I’m worried about you. You work for The New York Times.” That’s none of my business. You like it. It’s your job. I mean, I’m guessing. I don’t know. But you know what I’m saying?

We are in different worlds.

michael barbaro

And so what happens to people like Valerie? Where do they go from here?

kevin roose

It’s a really vulnerable, uncertain moment for believers in QAnon. And I think some of them are doing what they always do — they’re pushing that date back. They’re moving the goalposts. But a lot of them are just sort of floating. They don’t know what or who to believe. And there are groups that are preying on that uncertainty. Like, it’s important to remember that QAnon has been in many ways like a very destructive and dangerous movement. Like there have been real acts of violence. There was a mob at the Capitol that was driven in some way by QAnon believers. And now some other extremist groups, white supremacist groups, far-right militias, have started trying to capitalize on this moment of confusion by recruiting QAnon believers into their movements and attaching them to their causes.

michael barbaro

Really. So Kevin, is Q over in a certain sense? Is it on a path that is no longer sustainable, given what just happened?

kevin roose

I think the original form of QAnon — this conspiracy theory centered on the posts of this anonymous person on the internet that was all about Donald Trump defeating the deep state — I think that part may be close to over. But I think what QAnon represents, this kind of alternate reality of conspiracy theories and lies, this group of millions of Americans who don’t trust official explanations, who want secret knowledge, who are sort of creating their own truth out of fragments of stuff they read and see on the internet — I think that’s not going away anytime soon.

[music]
michael barbaro

Have you talked to Valerie since the inauguration?

kevin roose

Can you hear me?

valerie gilbert

Yes. How are you?

kevin roose

I am — I’m OK.

kevin roose

I have. And I asked her how she felt, now that her prediction about the inauguration had proven false.

valerie gilbert

You know, I don’t have an end date. The sands keep shifting. And in point of fact, Q never promised anything by any date. So, you know, there’s been anticipation, impatience, frustration from the get-go. But, you know —

kevin roose

She’s still very much a believer. In her mind, the fact that Joe Biden is the president doesn’t change anything.

valerie gilbert

His presidency will not stand. It’s a stolen crown. And I am still 100 percent positive that that will be proved. The faith is really unshakable in the fact that this is not only a political plan and a military one, but a divine one. That there is something bigger than all of us going on here. And if you think about the term —

[music]
michael barbaro

Thank you, Kevin. We appreciate it.

kevin roose

Thank you for having me.

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back.

Here’s what else you need to know today. The South African variant of the coronavirus has been detected in the United States. Two cases of the more contagious mutation have been found in South Carolina. Neither involved people who had recently traveled to South Africa, suggesting that the variant has been spreading for some time within the United States. And on Thursday, General Motors said that it would phase out gas and diesel-powered cars and trucks by 2035, a historic change that will pressure rival automakers to do the same. G.M. says that it will only sell vehicles that produce zero tailpipe emissions. The move will have a major impact on the oil and gas industry, which relies heavily on gas-powered cars. Today’s episode was produced by Luke Vander Ploeg and Austin Mitchell. It was edited by Alix Spiegel and Paige Cowett, and engineered by Chris Wood. Special thanks to Stuart Thompson.

The Daily is made by Theo Balcomb, Andy Mills, Lisa Tobin, Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Annie Brown, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Larissa Anderson, Wendy Dorr, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, Kelly Prime, Sindhu Gnanasambandan, M.J. Davis Lin, Austin Mitchell, Neena Pathak, Dan Powell, Dave Shaw, Sydney Harper, Daniel Guillemette, Hans Buetow, Robert Jimison, Mike Benoist, Bianca Giaever, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Alix Spiegel, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano and Soraya Shockley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Mikayla Bouchard, Lauren Jackson, Julia Simon, Mahima Chablani, Nora Keller, Sofia Milan and Des Ibekwe.

That’s it for The Daily. I’m Michael Barbaro. See you on Monday.

*** This article has been archived for your research. The original version from The New York Times can be found here ***